[MONROE COUNTY, PA] Disclaimer in advance, this will be a long post because there are so many moving parts which are pertinent to receive any type ...
Original text:
[MONROE COUNTY, PA]
Disclaimer in advance, this will be a long post because there are so many moving parts which are pertinent to receive any type of useful advice and hopefully will help someone in the future who experiences similar situations. This post is not trying to replace formally retaining a lawyer. It is about how this situation unfolded and how to avoid what happened.
(The first part below is for moderators, which will be in italics. Everyone else may want to start reading below the italics)
Last month I helped a female friend (who again, is sitting right next
to me right now) post a question in this forum because she was lost and severely
depressed. I am not very familiar with reddit and it seems every time I ask a
question it gets removed for one reason or another. As I said the female friend
I reference is sitting right next to me and she requested that I help her
explain her situation (in her words not mine) so this is not second hand
information. This is directly from the source.
This post will contain only facts and sincere questions. It will not
include any insults or judgments (and to be clear, stating facts of what
transpired with lawyers is not insulting or being judgmental of attorneys. It
will only include factual non emotional accounts of what happened which are
relevant to receiving proper helpful responses to her questions.
This post is about my female friend’s divorce in MONROE COUNTY, PA and only apply to family law issues which includes only the items a listed by the MODS here which are divorce,
separation, property division, spousal support, child custody, child support
and domestic violence*.. In our previous post someone commented that support*
does not belong in this forum and continuing to do so will have the post
removed. Perhaps we are confused but in Monroe County, PA the departments
“DOMESTIC RELATIONS” handle all of those matters exclusively as well as in the
rules of this forum it states all of those do belong here.
POST BEGINS HERE
As stated above, I am posting this almost as a scribe for my friend who is sitting next to me asking me to write this. You will see I took great efforts to make this detailed becasue its a matter very important to me being she approved and encoraged me to say that, she told me in the past that without my help during the begining of this she had many thoughs of (I won't say the word so it could be anything) but she is now in a MUCH better position and is mentally healthy and cautiously excited about her future. (she has talked to a medical professional about this)
Because it is a nasty divorce I will refer to myself as me and I and my friend that is going through the divorce (again currently sitting right next to me) as she, her and plaintiff or defendant depending on the matter). One more housekeeping item: I am not an attorney and I have not and am not giving her legal advice. I am an educated individual with multiple master’s degrees in different disciplines as well as having an insatiable thirst for knowledge no matter what the topic.
As if this were a Quentin Tarantino movie, which begins by showing the outcome before any of the context, the following is the ultimate questions and the context will follow.
These are main questions and why the long context below was necessary. Please note she (through a desperate loan of $1,500 from her destitute Mother) was able to get an attorney but only to handle the divorce filing and custody and she feels that the help she received with that $1,500 was very little and there was almost zero communication or advocacy. None of these questions should be possed to said attorney and do not have to do with offical legal advice. That is why she is posting here. It is also important to note that her husband filed two other PFA and only through the self -help guidance I helped her with, she REPRESENTED HERSELF and all of them were dismissed WITH prejudice except for the initial PFA that she was convinced not to fight but has since expired. Further, with my self-help guidance she applied and was granted APL which just started this week. That process was not made easy as well and she was met with resistance and had no guidance except “get an attorney”. However, the fact that a large monthly APL was granted suggests our system is not broken entirely.
You will not be able to adequately answer these questions with out reading the contect that follow these questions.
NOTE: The following questions are not an insult or judgment of any government employee or attorneys in general.
1) She realizes now that by law those goverment employees and shelter workers are barred from giving her any help that may be construed as legal advice, however, is there something wrong with our legal process that her fairly unique situation fell through the cracks? She was so scared, depressed, manipulated, and naive. The shelters did try to help as far as shelter and food and tried to educate her on what to do but she was in no state to actually accomplish what was needed. The County domestic relations office would not answer questions. All they would say is get an attorny and showed her where the self help library was in the building.
2) What could she have done differently from the beginning knowing she had no help or knowledge and she did not have acess to even a dollar becasue by design she was completly cut off by her husband who was setting up to protect his assets in the divorce. No bank account no credit. Also, Even when I basically begged her to accept my emotional support (again not legal advice) I personally witnessed how difficult it was for her to obtain council because to me it seemed (not fact but opinion) almost impossible for her to secure a lawyer in a timely manner because the agencies and independent lawyers seemed to feel it was a complex case and that her household earned and had far too much money to ask for pro-bono work, even if on contingency. I witnessed silently in person by her side multiple times.
3) Last, does anyone agree or identify with these legal issues? Whether you are a layperson who experienced it (but apparently it’s against the law if you tell her to do what you did because that would be legal advice) or if you are an attorney that through experience can empathize with her situation. And again since I was a fly on the wall through much of this in my opinion that she wanted me to help her did not go over well with the county nor attorneys as well as… REDDIT. The previous posts we made had one common response… over and over again that most replies in the forum were responses from attorneys whom wre not answering any of the questions but saying “get an attorney” “find a way to pay for an attorney” “you would know these things if you got an attorney” “the way you explain this it seems you already have legal knowledge so you should ask them” (which was because I helped her read and copy and paste law). The responses were short and almost snide. Is this an unfortunate truth of our legal system?
Again all questions are sincere and genuine with no motive or agenda.
Pertinent Facts to this post
- She is a 43 y/o female with three teenage children one of which is over 18.
- She has been married for just over 20 years in Monroe County, PA.
- During her marriage (Without placing blame on either party) she was STRONGLY encouraged not to work and to stay at home and raise the family. She was also strongly encouraged not to ask questions and just enjoy living a financially fruitful life.
- It is very important to note that because of the statement above she has bank account (she does now) no credit, no credit cards, no employment, and no legal documents (or even a spam physical mailing) in her name except for tax returns where she is not listed as primary and was never shown the returns until just recently when I helped her read her rights and she had to go through the IRS and ID.ME in order to request transcripts (not the actual returns because without a court order she cannot obtain the actual returns without her husband’s signature which he refused to give.) -Her husband in the past three years (taken from tax returns) earned a yearly gross of $512,000. Transcripts going back 10 years are consistent with this amount.
- The marital residence is owned in the husbands name with a mortgage of $200k with a estimated equity of over 300k
- I 401k account which has not yet been furnished to her off approximately 2 million dollars and other savings, whole life cash value and investment accounts which he refuses to furnish. (Once she secures her attorney for these matters formal discovery will be requested, that is not her question here)
THE MEAT AND POTATOES
The reason the financial information mentioned is important is because of this very brief summary of what happen under the nose of our legal system.
Towards the end of 2023 he was acting strange and became very aggressive and provoking to the point he was emotionally and physically abusive and pinned her against a wall as he ridiculed and taunted her with the worst insults you can imagine. Being half his weight and with bruises on her ribs (which were later seen at the hospital that night and she had to sign a form that she did not want to press charges because he convinced her to not) she spit in his face in desperation and he acted like he won the lottery. He was so happy and said “perfect that’s assault, you’re going to jail bitch” and he called the police. When they arrive she was outside and she just wanted to leave but he would not allow her. A police officer approach who she recognized as a personal friend of her husband and it seemed he was trying to diffuse the situation. More officers arrived and she was crying that she just wanted to leave and didn’t want to press charges. The let her leave and she went to the ER
He convinced her that while things cooled down he would temporarily pay for a hotel for a few days for her which she naively accepted. A week later she was served with a PFA and harassment charges from that night. She called her husband and he calmed her down and convince her it was only procedure that it was being dropped not to worry so she didn’t. Fast forward went to the hearing and even the public defender made her feel like it was not a big deal and told her that if her main concern is to not be near him than the PFA will acheive that!!!! She had no idea that it would be on her record and barred her from seeing her children or visiting the marital residence. The public defender seamed rushed and never explained any of that to her.
The day after the PFA order he stopped paying for the hotel and filed for divorce stating she has a record because of the PFA. (It was later discovered he had multiple consultations with his divorce attorney a month BEFORE he orchestrated the PFA incident. Anyone with common sense would be almost sure of the conclusion that this was all premeditated. He then filled for full custody of the children again becasue she now has a record and she lives in a hotel which is not suitable for children. (All of which he manufactered) She had to leave the hotel and she lived in women’s and homeless shelters for almost two weeks as well as her car. Since then he as filled for child support (he makes half a million a year and she makes zero and his attorney noted that at the APL hearing and requested that the maximum amount of child support be deducted from the APL.
The shelters gave her advice on how to try to free legal help but the action was up to her. She has not dealt with any real world responsibilities in her adult live besides being the best mother, maintaining the home and keeping up with marital sexual “duties” which were requests or demands. She was crippled with fear of the unknown and depression and was unable to secure an attorney.
This is the point through fate I assume that she reluctantly told me her situation. I immediately worked countless hours researching the process and printing out hundreds of papers from the applicable law and self-help agencies in PA FOR HER REVIEW AND ANALYSIS. I capitalize this because as I have been trying to help her I have been told by two separate government officials (one in domestics and one in prothonotary that I should stop helping her that I could be charged criminally for giving legal advice. I attempted to explain this was not the case with seemed to anger them further. I observed as I sat in silence multiple employees in both department refuse to give her any help. Their continual advice was get an attorney and would hand her a print out and the kept telling her how to get to the “Self Help library.” I helped her understand how to navigate getting a free emergency attorney as described in the forms and then I witness something to me (my opinion not fact) that is incredibly disturbing. The process was very slow and not easy. She was not able to adequately convey her situation to these agency’s and it seemed (again opinion) once they learned that she lived in a beautiful large home and her “marital” income was over half a million per year her ability to get free help became seemingly impossible. Meanwhile she was sleeping in her car, had not money or bank account, was eating at shelters and food banks because she was told that because the PFA was in effect she would go to jail if she went to her home.
Layperson/not verified as legal professional
Extactly what I thought would happen happened. Not that anyone will see this but the moderators but oh well. Im not mad or angry or even worked up. And I am not being paranoid. A simple google search shows how many monderator have been banned for this exact practic. My friend tried to find the post from her phone and she couldnt after last night. So I check from my account and the post is still there! But don't stop there. I sign out of reddit and enable a LOCAL vpn so it would not be my IP and... yep the post is hidden.
When my friend wanted answers so bad she begged me to post this and I warned her. "In my opinion I've experence hundreds of laywers in my professional carrer and their disposition and they are the moderators. I will write it in a way that I do not think they will remove it becasue I am not breaking any terms and they know I can report their decision to reddit, however, I doubt they will keep it live because it I cite rational examples that shines a poor light on lawyers.
This post has been up for 36 hours and there are 305 views which happened in the first hour then stopped. It is obvious it was shelved. There is a post on f/FamilyLAW from 9hours ago with a non descript title that has over 1,600 and over 100 comments. "I found out about the child" Yup
My favorite Reddit post was about 6 pages long and is was from a famous family law JUDGE of 36 years who resigned from his position and started a pro-bono law firm because his words were... "The legal system which I worked so hard to be a part of becasue I though I could do good, has let me down for 36 years...", "attornys protect their profession, not the clients" it was 6 pages long but those were some gems.